A Conversation with Will Johnson

photo by Matt Pence

Will Johnson is a prolific and unique songwriter, who (though he's originally from Missouri) fits well in Austin, the cultural hearth of Texas, and Denton, where he studied literature and now puts down tracks for his numerous musical projects. Johnson has compiled an impressive body of work as the lead singer, songwriter, and guitarist for Centro-Matic (often referred to as one of the hardest working — and best — live bands in the US) and South San Gabriel, and has also found fit to put out a couple of excellent, melancholy solo records. Johnson took some time between touring with Centro-Matic in Europe and leaving for a vacation to sit down and talk to me about baseball, why being in a band for more than a decade is like marriage, and the correlation between Toby Keith and the devil. Below, following a few mp3's from across his range of projects, is a conversation with Johnson from June 15, 2007.

[mp3] Centro-Matic - Biology Tricks
[mp3] Will Johnson - Your Bulldozer
[mp3] Centro-Matic - Huge in Every City
[mp3] South San Gabriel - New Brookland
[mp3] Will Johnson (with Undertow Orchestra) - Closing Down My House
[mp3] Centro-Matic - Take a Rake


Morgan Neely (HTFAF): How are things going? Enjoying being back from the stint in Spain?

Will Johnson: Things are pretty good. Did four shows there — long enough to shake off the jetlag, then turn around and come home. Very sweet crowds and encouraging folks. Great weather, too. Starting a short vacation tomorrow with my girlfriend.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): How did you end up in Spain? Have you guys toured there before?

Will Johnson: We've toured there several times over the last couple of years. We worked out a deal with Houston Party Records there, about two years ago. That's resulted in a couple of Centro-Matic stops there, a South San Gabriel tour, and a couple of short solo tours. It's been pretty good territory for us in a fairly short amount of time, so that's had us over there pretty frequently. Our label's done great work there.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Are there other bits of Europe you plan to hit up in the coming years?

Will Johnson: I said "there" too much.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): [laughter] I thought it was a good answer. I'll just do a find and replace function search, and find "there" and replace it with "you asshole."

Will Johnson: That was funny. “You asshole” is always a great replacement.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): "So that's had us over, you asshole, pretty frequently"?

Will Johnson: At any rate, in answer to your question: We've toured Europe on and off for the last seven years or so. Started mostly in Holland, Belgium, Germany and the UK, and more recently has included visits to Switzerland, Austria, Spain and Portugal.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): This is along the lines of something I wanted to ask: You guys are getting close to the 1,000 show mark together, is that about accurate?

Will Johnson: I think so, though I haven't counted that up recently.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): That's Bob's job.

Will Johnson: I hope we didn't miss it.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Are there any that stand out, for any reason, as exceptionally good or exceptionally bad? Not your performance, per se, but circumstances or context combined to make a particularly memorable show?

Will Johnson: Well, there's both. Some nights can really surprise you, y'know? In the best of ways. Then there's that SSG [South San Gabriel] show in Paris a couple of years ago, which was just a phenomenal kick in the nuts. You can never get too full on the great shows, because there always seems to be that one show, or shows, that just brings everything right back down to Earth.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What brought the SSG rocket burning back into orbit in Paris?

Will Johnson: It was during all the riots and fires in October '05, so the city was already pretty volatile. Throw in an un-promoted weeknight show at a fairly large and inappropriate venue, then things get even weirder. I think there were about nine people there, three of which cared. Our load-out that night was just unstoppable. Completely efficient and fast.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): And I bet you did it all by yourselves, too.

Will Johnson: Yeah. No help needed.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): As a geographer, I have to ask, Are there any cities that you're usually excited to play, or cities that you really look forward to visiting on tour? Or do you feel like you get much sense of a city just going in and playing, or do you get to spend time there and get to know it?

Will Johnson: It's always nice when there's a little extra time to explore and see the offerings of a city. Admittedly, after a lot of years of touring, a little of the romance wears off, especially here in the US. But you know, there's always something new to check out. As for US cities, San Francisco, Seattle, and New York are always superb to hang in. For Europe, Barcelona, Brussels, Amsterdam and the north of Spain and Portugal are always stunning. I feel lucky to get to visit 'em so much.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What bands have been really great to tour with in the past?

Will Johnson: We've made some good friends over the course of tours. Drive-By Truckers, My Morning Jacket, Long Winters and Bobby Bare Jr., to name a few. Dave Doughman, Scout Niblett and Great Lake Swimmers to name a couple more.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I'm kicking myself for missing a Bobby Bare show earlier this week.

Will Johnson: He's a good egg. And somethin' else to tour with. There’s only one Bobby.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Except there are two, in this case, because he's a junior.

Will Johnson: Good point. But he's cutting his own beautiful and unique path. A lot like his pop in many ways from what I can tell, though.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): That guy kicked my ass all over the venue when I saw him live.

Will Johnson: He has great hair and robust eyes.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): And gets on stage barefoot.

Will Johnson: He did half a tour in a neck brace two years ago. He’s a warrior. I was out opening solo for him.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So those are the bands you enjoyed touring with ...

Will Johnson: Definitely. Also, John Vanderslice, American Music Club, the Sleepy Jackson. All really good peeps to tour with. We’ve been pretty lucky in that most everyone we've toured with, we've gotten along with. There’s been the occasional one-off with less savory people, though, but that's bound to happen.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So you just recently toured with Undertow colleague, HTFAF namesake, and all around renaissance man David Bazan … in a Subaru Outback. How did that go, and do you have any good Will and Dave in a Subaru stories?

Will Johnson: Yeah. Was a really fun couple of weeks. Low maintenance and very enjoyable. We've had good tours together before, so there's not really any guesswork, y'know? We got pretty into listening to This American Life episodes, the occasional theological discussion, and playing some CDs. Nothing too crazy. We saw the Girls Gone Wild bus in downtown Madison [Wisconsin].

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Did you guys decide definitively whether or not the devil exists?

Will Johnson: We agree on the idea that the devil does not exist … or maybe his name is Toby Keith?

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I would vote for Toby Keith being the devil … Madison is a fantastic town, and seems like a strange destination for Girls Gone Wild.

Will Johnson: No man. Upper-Midwestern girls gotta get their wild on sometime.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): [laughter] Going with the Bazan thing, I have to ask: Will there be another Undertow Orchestra?

Will Johnson: I really hope so. It may take shape in a different form, but I would love for the four of us [Johnson, Bazan, Mark Eitzel and Vic Chesnutt] to somehow play together again at some point. That first tour we did unquestionably holds some of the most fun memories I have of touring. And maybe it was just the honeymoon-like newness and uncertainty of it all. And the ease with which we all got along, just right outta the gates. I feel like it's all too good to just let go and not revisit, in some form, again.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Can you narrow it down to a good Undertow Orchestra story out of many?

Will Johnson: Well, there's the time that Vic told his story of taking 40 hits of acid all at once, then sitting in his house, mostly motionless for five days straight.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): HOLY SHIT.

Will Johnson: That story still really kills me. I laugh just at the thought of it. Apparently he could hear the phone ringing, and people knocking at his door, but he just couldn't move to answer either one of 'em.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Man. When did you hear that one? In Athens during the week of UO practice?

Will Johnson: He told us that story on the way into Chicago. I'm glad I wasn't driving for all the tears streaming down my face.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Back to Centro-Matic and SSG, you guys have been together for about 12 years now … ?

Will Johnson: Centro-Matic's been going for about twelve years now, and SSG for about six.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What's it like working with the same guys for that length of time? Do you feel more like co-workers now, or still like good friends? Is there an easiness about what you do onstage or in the studio because you’re so familiar with each other's abilities and talents?

Will Johnson: Both, in some ways. I think the fact that we've kept our friendships at the forefront, and that we were all friends before playing together, has made us pretty good co-workers. We read off of each other well, and keep simple communication very much at the forefront, which inevitably has added longevity to our bands. It's also lead to a certain comfort level both onstage and in the studio.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So what prompted establishing SSG? First it was a Centro-Matic album [South San Gabriel Songs/Music], but were there already plans to take it in it's own direction? What makes it unique, for you, compared to CM?

Will Johnson: There came a point in early 2001 where we occasionally found ourselves divided on what kind of show we wanted to play with Centro-Matic. Some wanted to make the whole presentation more rock, and sometimes there was a tendency to want to focus on a much more subdued and quiet set. There was one night in particular here in Austin, where Matt [Pence, Centro-Matic drummer and producer] and I differed on set-list choices, so we kinda figured instead of arguing about it, let's just form a new band to focus on the quieter material. So that's where and when SSG was formed. We decided to make it more of a collective, with no real set membership, and presentable in different forms. It created a whole new way for us to enjoy playing together, and sort of solidified Centro-Matic's identity in the process.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): That's incredibly diplomatic and progressive.

Will Johnson: I feel like it represents what our friendships have kinda been about all along.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Along with the subdued thing, there seems to be a more electronic component associated with SSG, too … I mean, Centro-Matic is, I think, pretty expansive in its sound while at the same time being pretty straightforward.

Will Johnson: Definitely. More strings, organs. More space, really [in SSG].

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Just out of curiosity, where'd the name Centro-Matic come from?

Will Johnson: It's the model name of an accordion I own. Made by the Lira Company out of Italy.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Can you play it?

Will Johnson: I can play part of "Hit Me with Your Best Shot" on it.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I think that's pretty much all you need.

Will Johnson: It has been so far.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I'd be satisfied if I could rock that.

Will Johnson: It's a cool instrument, but it's ornery.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Moving away from the more band-centric questions, what's your creative process like? You're known to be pretty prolific, so how do you know when a song is “finished,” or when it belongs on a record?

Will Johnson: Well, there are some ideas and songs that are just turds out of the gate. But even still, I think it's good practice to constantly work with words and melody. I'll write in batches typically, so there may not be anything written for a good while. But then maybe we'll get home and get the chores done, then fire up the recording gear for three or four days in a row. That's when most stuff gets written, and the worthy ideas start to surface amongst the heap. We'll discuss 'em, even vote on 'em, as a band, and then explore recording them more formally from there.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So the recording process is pretty intertwined with the writing process?

Will Johnson: Not particularly. I'll usually write here at home and record versions to the four track, then we'll convene up in north Texas, pick songs and start recording. Only lately have I finished a few songs in the studio, and that may be because I'm lazy; I don't know.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Can you name a few bands or artists that influence you musically, e.g., your guitar playing? And how about lyrically?

Will Johnson: It's a pretty deep well, but going back to childhood the voices and visions that really caught me were people like Johnny Cash, Neil Young, Willie, Aretha, Bread … later on it was the Replacements, Hüsker Dü and some of the SST bands. A lot of blues players have influenced my guitar playing in recent years, even though we're way removed from that genre. It's just the approach of switching from pick to fingers that I really dig. As for lyrical influence, lots of writers have played into that. I studied lit so it was fairly inevitable. Faulkner, Pancake, Welty, Updike and Larry Brown are just a few.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I noticed the switching from pick to fingers thing; I like the dynamic and sound that that produces.

Will Johnson: I just started doing that five or six years ago, but it feels pretty natural.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Would you say your songs are a mix of the autobiographical and fictional? Your solo records seem to lean more towards the personal to me, while Centro-Matic records seem to encompass all sorts of surreal stories and characters.

Will Johnson: Yeah, I sort of see it as being that way. At least so far. The CM lyrics can be a little more angular and playful. And oftentimes a song will contain both autobiographical and fictional subject matter.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Are there any specific songs or records that you're most proud of, or pleased with?

Will Johnson: I like the SSG [The] Carlton [Chronicles] record pretty well, and mostly because expectations were so cloudy going into that recording. The musicians had never heard any of the songs prior to getting together, so there were really no preconceptions. They knew it was a story about a cat and that's all. We listened to the four-track version of it on the first day, and I sort of explained the story via a lyric sheet handout. Then we cooked up a bunch of chicken and just started recording. We recorded it in the order of the story, which I think helped it come to life. And everyone's performances were pretty spontaneous, which is why I dig the fail/succeed nature of recording like that.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So it's more rewarding because it was more risky.

Will Johnson: Definitely. I feel like everyone's contributions on that record came out really well, and under uncertain circumstances. I feel like it bred a good deal of confidence in our recording process.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I think that's a cool concept: That you're able to take what you've learned, not just technically, but confidence-wise, into the next record, so every record sort of builds on the last one … it seems like a simple observation, but it also seems to really fit with the way you guys have decided to make music together.

Will Johnson: I think each experience can help make the next unique, even after making so many records together. It's pretty simple: if the musicians aren't interested, then you get an uninteresting result. It's all a path of learning, sharing and enjoying a life together, really. Not much different than being married.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): This is totally off topic, but I've noticed that there seems to be a sort of snobbery in some music scenes towards sport ... but you're an unabashed Cardinals fan, and occasionally write about baseball on your web page ... what's your connection to St. Louis, and to baseball?

Will Johnson: I was born in Kennett, Missouri. Lived there until I was 12 and was sort of raised on the Cards. Lotsa trips up to the old Busch [Stadium] as a kid, and of course the Ozzie Smith-as-idol factor. Baseball's always been a pretty big part of my life (with the exception of the punk rock years, when I guess I was too cool for it). I'm too old for that kinda snobbery now, and even as I have some issues with professional athletes' behavior sometimes, I still feel like the game itself is pastoral, poetic and flawless. It's beautiful no matter what level it's played on.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I had a really similar experience, regarding the punk rock years.

Will Johnson: Yeah, my stats recollection during the mid-80's is pretty cloudy … All I wanted to do was skate, smoke bugler's and drink Milwaukee's Best (...) I was divided. I was pretty good at music and sports as a kid. I got along with both groups somehow.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I definitely think that, removed from all [the legitimate critiques of professional sports], there's a really cool aesthetic to setting two groups of people against each other and making them adhere to a certain set or rules. Life is rarely as clearly delineated.

Will Johnson: Baseball and hoops were my two strongest I think. Got crushed in football.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What position in baseball?

Will Johnson: Shortstop. Again, the Ozzie factor. Sometimes third.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): I love infield.

Will Johnson: It kept me very awake.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): So what are the current plans for the next album (Centro-Matic, SSG, or solo)? And any plans for upcoming tours?

Will Johnson: We've got two new records tracked. Centro-Matic and SSG, both of which we plan to release together as a double-LP set early next year. Centro-Matic does a couple of weeks in the Midwest and South with our friend, Jason Isbell in August, and I'm planning on doing a solo run or two before the year's up.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Ok, here goes lightning round so you can go do lunch. What are you reading?

Will Johnson: Chemistry and Other Stories, by Ron Rash.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What are you listening to?

Will Johnson: Tres Monos in Love by PPT, an amazing hip-hop group from Dallas.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What movies/shows have you enjoyed lately?

Will Johnson: Beerfest. Cardinals/Tigers World Series DVD set. The Break-Up. 30 Rock. Big Love. The Accountant. Also, Roky Erickson documentary: You're Gonna Miss Me.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What pisses you off?

Will Johnson: What pisses me off? People that assume that just because one doesn't make a lot of money must inevitably mean that one isn't that smart. It's class racism, and it's everywhere.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): What makes you feel all nice?

Will Johnson: Polvo's margaritas. Rumor is they throw a little dash of everclear in 'em.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Can you give me five favorite records, any genre?

Will Johnson: AC/DC, Back in Black; Neil Young, Tonight's the Night; the Replacements, Let it Be; Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music box set; Nina Simone at Carnegie Hall (Live). Just a couple off the top of my head … That's the toughest question so far.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Last good ethnic food meal?

Will Johnson: Seafood paella right on the harbor in Barcelona.

Morgan Neely (HTFAF): Excellent. All right Will, it's been a pleasure. Thanks a whole lot.

Will Johnson: This has been good times. Thanks, man. Talk to you soon.

[Links]
Centro-Matic is Will Johnson, Scott Danbom, Mark Hedman, and Matt Pence
Buy Centro-Matic, Will Johnson, and South San Gabriel records
Houston Party Records
Misra Records